I'm odds and ends.

[bjornwilde]

 Deciding to go AU with her seems to have really opened up the flood gates. Nothing against Riordan, she was a supporting character after all, but Thalia never changed. Even after becoming a Hunter, she still was grumpy and afraid of heights and not much else was given her for character. In Riordan's defense, we only ever saw her through Percy, Jason or Leo's eyes. Or did Piper speak about her, too? Need to reread The Lost Hero.

And yes, I fully own everything I just said could be completely wrong since it's been a while since I read The Last Olympian and The Lost Hero. Need to change that.

One thing that bugged me was how Jason gets more powers than Thalia. I think he did lightening didn't he? Anyway, I think I am going to have her get over her "crippling" acrophobia, not cured but not crippled by it. This will open the doors to her learning other powers. I doubt she'll ever fly like Jason but I can see her basically air bending.

Some thoughts on what abilities she's gained as a Hunter. Obviously she's ageless but I think we have more to work with. Officially, she can't die except by breaking her oath and a violent death. That suggests she's immune to diseases also which works with Apollo being Artemis' brother and plague bringer. I can see it as something he would give his sister the ability to offer. Or is Artemis a plague bringer as well? Curse you vague Classic facts.

I think Hunters have other gifts. There is their bows and hunting knives which seem to appear when needed and not require a quiver or sheath. I think it also reasonable to assume that getting lost in the wild is near impossible as well as an instinctual ability to track and know basic woodlore. I think it would work as something you would have to think or meditate on, sort of like praying, but it is there when needed. I also think their dexterity, endurance, and strength are increased a bit as well. Nothing supernatural but I can see a +2 or so to the base score. In fact I think I'll have an EP or two with Thalia working on her endurance since being a city kid, she wouldn't have much for wide open spaces.

Moving on, I am finally able to see why folks like Kaya Scodelario as a fancast for Thalia. I know a few years ago I was against it, mostly as I imagined someone less waifish and lithe, built more for strength. Then I came across Riordan's description which said she had a runners build. I also was held up by the long hair since Thalia should have short spikey hair. But I was also dissuaded by the character Kaya played in Skins who I saw as a drug addict and sexualized which are NOT things I associate with Thalia.

Once I gave up on finding someone with blue eyes, freckles and black spikey hair, I went with Freya Tingley and yes, I did note the similarity to Kaya in build and facial features. Maybe that's why I like Kaya now and plan to mix some icons in, as the mixed_muses post I have up will show.  

Comments

[ceitfianna]

All of my classics' books are packed away but I agree that she should have more power especially since becoming a Hunter. Have you poked around on theoi.com, they have great resources on what sources say about various gods in stories?

I like what Riordan did but I stopped reading after Lost Hero as the addition of the Romans felt awkward to me. I'm glad Thalia isn't fully going away as I find her fascinating and she and William didn't get enough adventures, they need to have some.

[bjornwilde]

I have poked at Theoi but it's been a long time. I do want to be careful not to go overboard with Divine powers and I think I will limit it to realms that have the Gods present; for example summoning lightening in William's world will be very hard or impossible.

I also want to explore her personality more, since there has to be more than fierce. Like what sort of jokes make her laugh? What kind of books or movies does she like?

I also want to read up or explore what it means to be a hunter and what the Classic attitude about sex and women was to understand or come to some conclusions as to why Artemis only runs with girls. I have a half-formed theory it is a power thing as if I understand it right, the woman was perceived as sub to the male during sex.

As well, I need to figure out what is a girl? Is it just one who hasn't felt the touch of man? In the modern world there are some many ways for children to loss their innocence that don't involve sex and I want to figure out if those would "ruin" them for Artemis.

[ceitfianna]

It wasn't that simple in the ancient world and honestly the whole ruining thing is a modern religious idea. Shame wasn't a major part of the Greek religions, it comes far more from Christianity. A girl was usually a maiden until she's a mother, I don't think the Greeks cared that much about virginity, the Romans did more.

And the real warning with all of this just looking at the language you're using, the past is another country, we will never know for certain but putting too many of our ideas back is tricky. Think of how the gods had realms, men and women had different realms, there were some sanctuaries and festivals that were only for women and girls. It was a very different way of looking at things and since Thalia is from a modern look at these ancient ideas, there's that as well.

[bjornwilde]

Very good points and thank you for the caution! If memory serves there is the added risk of the Victoria translations of things as well.

I would like to get away from the ruining idea but would also like to be true to the Classic culture, so it is good to know I wouldn't be far off. I have a half formed fic idea of Thalia finding an old friend who had to live on the streets to live and her convincing/arguing the girl is not a woman to gain her entry to the Hunters. Need to research it more though before I truly step into it and mess it up. =)

[ceitfianna]

Oh god, yes, when in doubt, go read translations of the poems and works themselves. That's where I always start and then into the historical and anthropological texts but take everything with a grain of salt as there's so much we don't know. Also we always place our own interpretations onto the past depending on what's being looked for.

You're welcome, one reason I find history fascinating to study and to play characters from other eras challenging to play is that the ideas are so different.

That's an interesting idea and shouldn't be that difficult. Artemis took lovers and the Greek views of sex were fluid, maturity was a little more specific but a different focus. It was important to know when a girl could begin to have children to consider marriage but also celebrating that children grew up to an age where they could be part of the community.

[bjornwilde]

When I have a more formed idea or if I write it out, would you mind looking it over for any glaring cultural mistakes? As well as grammar of course.

Also, I do have a Thalia up in mixed_muses if you are interested. DOn't know how long I'll be on tonight though.

[ceitfianna]

I'd be glad to since I love thinking about the Greek world and how it would shift and change to fit into the modern world. That's why I find what Riordan did interesting even though I don't like all of his choices.

I didn't realize you did, I'll see about tagging her if not tonight than tomorrow.

How would you feel about a teenage Charles for her? He's being a bit louder when I look at the EP.

[bjornwilde]

Sounds good! I am about to head for bed though but I will try and tag as I can tomorrow.

[ceitfianna]

Tagged and I'll be heading to bed soon myself. My days have been full as I prepare to move.